• Whiskey_Drinker

    How about, if the person resists going at the door, you don't force their hands off and dive out of the plane with them? Let the next group/diver go and let the scared person come to grips or call it off. That was horrifying.

    • antitango

      When I went skydiving about 10 years ago or so… they specifically said we could back out at any time we wanted. It was non-refundable, but it was definitely our choice. I hope it doesn't turn the lady off of trying it in the future… skydiving really is amazing.

      • Bud

        Oh ya, I'm sure she'll do that again.

        • Dukes

          your reply made me laugh my ass off………nice…….

        • Jester

          "Hey remember when we went skydiving and I almost plunged to a horrible death?…I think I want to give it another go"

          • mikethemotormouth

            thats the spirit! gotta get back on the horse

          • ChrisR

            Every time you skydive you *are* plummeting to your death. But usually the chute dampens the fall enough for you to survive. 😉

      • San Diego

        Yep, we were taught to ask once "Are you ready to skydive?" and if the answer is no, that's it. This guy needs to have his rating pulled.

    • Pete

      Yeah, that was really quite dodge. I have a feeling that outfit is probably shut down by now.

    • myself

      I thought letting the next group go was standard procedure. I have a friend that has gone & chickened out 4 times and they happily kept her cash every time.

    • BType13X2

      I went up 3X's did not go out the door twice, paid for 3 jumps finally just did it on my 3rd. They never forced me to jump you can't force someone to do things like this without unnecessarily endangering their life. Aside from the obvious that had the potential to happen from this video, what if she had a heart attack mid air because she was so terrified of the jump? You can't do shit like this, and I am pretty sure that that waiver you sign doesn't cover this sort of negligence.

    • Master_Rahl

      I was kinda hoping that after that poor lady was forced to jump, that she would let one fly during free fall… right into Mr "jump-now-cuz-I-said-so's" face. That was scary stuff to watch.

    • NebraskaGuy

      That was hard to watch! I'm sitting safely in my chair watching this, but I found my hands reaching out to the screen wanting to help her!

    • Jumperforever1

      Coming from a C License skydiver and doing my fair share of video jumps for tandems it is a very common thing for people to have her reaction when first facing the door. I do not blame the tandem master at all for pushing her through the door. We also do not know the situation for landing requirements and things of that nature for the particular flight load they were on.

      Overall it DOES come down to the tandem masters negligence to check this woman's chest strap and also her arm and leg straps as they all seemed to be far to loose. It was also an obvious rookie tandem master because he was not in a stable position when exiting the plane and did not maintain control of the gainer that he had when he exited. This all comes down to it being a rookie tandem master giving this woman a bad skydiving experience. He probably only has like 800 or 900 jumps under his belt and wanted to start earning some cash so he rushed into going straight for tandems.

      • GabrielKraus

        Couldn't have set it better!

        Congrats the C .. I only have an A.

        But soon. Very Soon!

      • flyingzombies

        That guy can't be called a master of anything!

    • heidiann

      agreed.. if that was my mother someone would have some serious explaining to do.

    • alphamedak

      According to her, she was not forced out the door.

  • RAAAAAAANDY w/ 8 A's


    • Babytrollmagizax

      You are sketchy troll.

      • P.A. All the Way

        you're a douche, troll

  • Yes

    Looks like she was trying to undo the harness when he forced her out of the plane. Wow. And is that Offspring? Honestly.

    • Friar Tuck

      Yep, that was "I choose" from the album Ixnay On The Hombre, released 15 years ago… Damn I'm feeling old right now!

  • squidlymcgee

    and as for your grandma….. she shouldn't have mouthed off like that!

  • Aaron

    Well we know why things in CA are so expensive…..they're jumping out of a C-12!

  • http://motleynews.net/2012/05/24/tandem-skydiving-goes-very-wrong/ Tandem Skydiving Goes Very Wrong « Motley News and Photos

    […] The Chive Pass it on….FacebookRedditStumbleUponTwitterPinterestDiggTumblrEmailPrintLike this:LikeOne […]

  • ChodeLauncher

    I couldn't believe what I was seeing….she needs to sue their stupid asses into bankruptcy.

    • Joel

      She signed a waiver, its a requirement before jumping.

      • Chorel

        So that means it's fine to FORCE her out of the plane instead of letting her stay in the plane? FFS man.

    • pimpampet

      Here in europe he should sue her for mental trauma and bringing his life in danger by acting so totally out of control.

      • Europe sucks

        Good thing she lives in America and not Europe

      • Jumperforever1

        In Europe this would also be covered by the waiver. There is no grounds for a lawsuit at all as long as the waiver was signed, which is the only way she got on the plane.

        • Westwood

          He pushed her out of the friggen plane, you iddiot. that's not in the waiver.

          • Nebula

            Once you're in the plane, you're going out the door.. It was the Tandem instructors dumb ass fault for not tightening the harness.. Either way, once the waiver is signed you're out of luck if something goes wrong. It even states that you'll be responsible for paying their lawyers! ha!

          • alphamedak

            According to her, she was not forced out the door. http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/video/7332367-80-y

          • Techno Viking

            If you have ever been sky diving you would know that that's what they are supposed to do. Oh.. and idiot is only spelt with one d. Idiot.

    • Jesper Bech

      Spoken like a true american…

  • 1/2FunAndDontCry

    That looks staged, the old lady looks like Johnny Knoxville. That said, I still thought It was pretty gut wrenching though.

    • the_mike

      Not only you can't fake that fat, no mention of "I'm Johnny Knoxville and this is old fat lady trying not to jump out of an airplane"

  • Guesty

    It didn't look like she did anything they taught me when I went, but it also looked like she didn't want to go.

  • https://www.facebook.com/emmanuel.aguilar.98 Emmanuel Aguilar

    No words

    • ShakeyTheMoyle

      that's two

  • Jasper

    I don't think any makeup job can replicate that sort of fat rippling through the wind effect.

  • Shamblin

    I'm surprised that the video didn't "accidentally" get deleted by the camera operator. Looks like perfect evidence against the company for negligence.

    • http://www.facebook.com/pj.hartman Pj Hartman Jr.

      doesn't matter, i just went skydiving complete different location and the papers you sign basically hand your life to the company, so negligence is covered anyways. but like everyone else said, as long as you dont fight it, those accidents don't happen. they are trained professionals and know exactly what to do, and if they didn't, that woman wouldn't have been able to bitch when she landed.

      • Bud

        I promise you that those people had a lawsuit on their hands. I don't care what she signed, you can't force someone out of the plane. You could sign a contract that says I can kill you but if I do it I still get arrested for murder. Contracts aren't bigger than the law.

  • Tyler

    While she was pushing against the door and the instructor, her belts got loosened, so its her own damn fault.

    fuck old people.

    • maleesha


    • negative nancy

      Your grandma must have never hugged you. 🙁

    • Whoa Nellie

      I noticed that her harness was loose while she was still sitting in her seat in the plane, so I don't think the struggle had much to do with it. My question is how could they have not noticed that her harness was that loose?

    • Granny Roundhouse

      No, fuck YOU!

    • P Liu

      I am a tandem instructor, this is 100 % the tandem instructors fault. he deserves to have all his instructional ratings revoked. he should never again be responsible for keeping someone else safe

    • nunurbizness

      If someone don't get u for ur comment, just remember that one day u may b one of those "old people". When u go tandem jumping u cannot b forced out of the plane if u change ur mind. Clearly she changed her mind and was forced out. Get a clue.

    • Katherine

      It looks like it was loose before she even got up.

    • fuck tyler

      " While she was pushing against the door and the instructor, her belts got loosened, so its her own damn fault" tyler your as big a fool as the idiot fucking TM. Her pushing against the door should have been clue one.. It is more than obvious she didn't want to go through with it, so she should have been allowed to de-rig and have a seat. Your logic … I guess the next time you say you don't want to suck my cock i'll force you to do it, and it will be your fault

    • Owen

      She has a right to back out just before the jump you jackass. They forced her to jump out of the plane. Why? They already got paid!

  • Jules

    I feel so bad about this, but I was cracking up at the back fat part. Oh man.

  • Dave

    Accidents happen; I think it would be hard to say that this was definitively the operators fault. The only time I went, the guy told me that. "as long as I didn't 'tell' them to stop, they would basically just push me out of the plane." I don't know if that's standard, but it makes sense – jumping out of a plane isn't a naturally tenable position for a human being, and we're going to fight it physically even if we want to do it. The guy with her probably felt he was doing her a favour by pushing her out…

    • phil

      This lady was incorrectly harnessed. IN addition to her leg straps being too loose, the "instructor" did not hook up the hip attachments…something he should have noticed when she was able to get so low on him in the doorway. That particular skydive establishment in Lodi , CA is well known for not being affiliated with the United States Parachute Association, which means they do not have to meet national standards because they are a rogue operation. In addition, the owner of Lodi has been fined over half a million dollars for failing to maintain his aircraft.

      That instructor should have all his ratings yanked and never be allowed to instruct again!

      BTW: I am a Tandem/AFF instructor with over 7000 jumps of which approximately 3500-4000 are tandems.

  • Everclear

    No offense, but I'm sure the tandem skydiver professionals deal with hesitation and sudden cold feet dozens of times every single day. If they waited for everyone who was scared at the last second, they wouldn't even be able to make money or do their job. She should thank them for keeping her dumbass alive, especially considering she caused the problem to begin with.

    If you don't want to do it, don't wait until you're halfway out the door to start pushing back.

    • Jumperforever1

      Thank you! someone who is on our side!

      As a video jumper for tandem students I see hesitation like this all the time and they are always grateful we push them out. The only way we stop is if they either tell us to stop before they are up to the door, they pass out (happened to a tandem student I was doing video for), or they use the safe word at the door at which point we put them in the back of the plane and let others go first. We then bring them back and see if they want to try again.

      The tandem master may have been foolish because he did not double check her gear but he did a normal thing of pushing her out!

      • Sandybeach

        It didn't look like there was enough room to get both of them out of the way so the other teams could jump. And I don't know where they were that school is but where I go its just a grass runway. If you ever flown before landing with an empty plane on a grass runway is sketchy, let alone a plane full of people. I would have pushed her out as well.

    • deekee

      Wow, that's cool. So if I am dating a woman and while engaged in sex, she says "no, I changed my mind", it's ok for me to force her since she shouldn't have came to my apt?
      I am sure they collect her money BEFORE she got on the plane. I am sure according to the contract, they get to keep the money whether she jumps or not. You can see she's saying "no" and refusing to get out the door. If i was her, I would sue the SH*T out of that company.

      • noah

        really…different circumstance…you are just in a whole different ball park man

      • alphamedak

        According to her, she was not forced out the door. http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/video/7332367-80-y

        • Adam

          Are you the lawyer representing the sky diving company? 😉

  • Daffin

    As a skydiver I can say that that the tandem master did an amazing job of keeping her in the harness during free fall. Most TM's find that even when the student is scared in the door, they end up loving it once there out. In this case he could of stayed in the aircraft, but chose to carry on when she put her hands on her harness like she was supposed to.

    In order to exit the aircraft in a stable position, the TM has to be looking up so at the moment where she undid and pushed he self backwards through the harness happened at the one moment your not being monitored by the TM, this is normally why when you do the jump they tell you to stay the still on exit.

    People don't realise the life of the TM is in the hands of student just as much as it is the other way around, you never know who your going to get or what stupid things they might do. Major props to the instructor who hands down saved her life, even if it could of been avoided, that women owes her life to him.

    • DrHardy

      @ Daffin: I think even skydivers should know their English! C'mon! "… he could of stayed" and "… could of been avoided"?? I'm a non-English background foreigner and know that "of" is not a verb!

    • deekee

      I'll tell you, If she had slipped out, that TM would be facing manslaughter charges. You can defend the TM all you want, maybe because you are in the field, but I'll tell you, you are the expert, therefore you are responsible for anything thing that goes wrong.
      If someone says "No", you better not push anyone out. You have no right to force anyone to do anything against their will.
      I hope this woman decides to sue.
      You better believe the TM needed consoling at the end of the jump. If she had slipped out, he would be sleeping in a prison.

  • whatinodinsname

    Sorry man, but I had to watch the video 5 more times, not exagerating, I watched it 5 more times…she clearly shouted NO…NO I AM AFRAID(read the lips) he looks at her clearly understands but takes her hands and forces her to jump…TM's fault all day without a doubt, of course he had to be 140%bulletproof professional for the rest of the fall because he owed the woman her life for putting it in danger first…1.totally unprofessional to force someone the way he did after clearly understanding the words NO I AM AFRAID I DON'T WANT…2.TM license ripped to pieces , he can jump alone and make mistakes as much as he wants because it's his life, but he clearly failed at thinking for two…if it would've happened in the middle of the fall, yes the woman's fault, but he forced the exit knowing pretty damn well that in a tandem the exit is crucial

    Was it so hard to step aside, let the others jump and wait to see if she has a change of mind? maybe she woul've jumped after seeing the others do it.

    As I said, it's 180 around, he owed her her life because he put it in danger first. Not trying to be an asshole here just stating the fact.

    I will go through my AFF course this summer and I will eventually go for TM, but I know this much already, if someone says NO I'M AFRAID I DON'T WANT then you wait and consider the option that your client doesn't want to jump…

    • j22

      Yeah, I'm sure he heard her with her head pointed in the opposite direction as him, with 150 mph winds, and plane engines running.

      • alphamedak

        90 mph wind out the door, not 150. On exit you can give a loud "ready, set, go" and easily be heard. Granny was just not loud enough in her hesitation…which is understandable…because she's a granny.

        • Bud


          • alphamedak

            I wasn't arguing whether or not she wanted to go. It is very clear that she doesn't want to go and the videographer had an obligation to step in and not let the TM exit in the first place, consitering that the videographer had the most clear view of her stating as much. I was talking to the point about wind speed and noise as stated by j22. His statement was not accurate.

            As to your point, most people subconsciously grab at the door before exit. It's human instinct. There is nothing natural about jumping out of planes. Your brain says "no, stop". It takes a few jumps to change that behavior. So to say that all physical signs pointed to her not wanting to go makes sense to you because you have probably not seen that behavior over and over again like a Tandem Mater would. I have seen it many times and to a TM it all looks the same after a while.

            • Bud

              I get what your saying but tandem skydiving is not a new thing and neither is wind noise. She is clearly mouthing, NO, DONT and STOP. Maybe he couldn't hear her, but it is his responsibility to understand these people. So, with yelling and the visual clues I'm pretty sure he didn't do his job here. Look at some of the other comments on here with people saying they backed out three or four times. There was wind noise on those jumps too and the TM managed to understand that they didn't want to go. It's not his fault that she almost died, it was a perfect storm of bad shit happening, but this is NOT a professional at work here.

              A couple comments down as well you can see that this was not a licensed jump zone or a licensed TM.

              • alphamedak

                I agree, this was not the act of a professional. I am actually a skydive professional. As such, I was commenting on your statement, "PUSHING YOUR FEET AND HANDS AT THE DOOR LIKE A CAT TRYING NOT TO GO IN THE BATHTUB IS SIGNAL ENOUGH". Your statement is not accurate. Those physical signs occur A LOT with tandem students, therefore, that alone is not "signal enough".

                Between him and the videographer, they should have never exited the aircraft. Both played a role in this case.

              • alphamedak

                BTW, if you look closely you'll see that I was the one that commented below about the dropzone in question. I said nothing about licenses in regards to the dropzone or the Tandem Master. Dropzones are not licensed by USPA. Dropzones are only consitered a "member dropzone" if they agree to abide by the safety rules established by USPA. There is a process that a dropzone must go through in order to be given membership by USPA. As for the "TM", he IS licensed. All skydivers must be licensed. This particular "TM" has a license to skydive, but he did not have a "rating" to be a Tandem Master.

                • phil

                  ALL OF YOU ARE WRONG! Watch the video again! If you know what you are looking for, it is crystal clear that the hip attachments are not cinched tight. As a tandem/AFF instructor with approximately 4000 tandems and close to 7000 total jumps, I can state with absolute certainty that the tandem instructor in this video is 100% at fault and 100% negligent.

                  Pushing someone out when they hesitate is very common, most of us ask on the climb to altitude if the student is sure they want to go and when we get an affirmative, say something along the lines of; "ok so even if you are screaming no no no at the door, I'm pushing ok?" when we get a yes, it's game on. The problem here is that she was not properly harnessed or attached to the instructor. The hip attachments are attached, but they are not cinched tight that is why she is able to get her hips so far away from the instructors. This instructor effed up and almost got someone killed. he also brought alot of bad publicity to our sport. What a clown, I hope he gets his ratings yanked!

  • Zmarrs

    I'm sorry. I've done every kind of dive you can think of and I can tell you one thing I know for certain from this video. While that Tandem Master did do a good job keeping her in the harness once she was coming out, he also put her in that situation by doing two things.

    First thing Tandem Masters are taught is if someone changes their mind or panic stalls, you DON'T FORCE THEM. When he did that the struggle loosened her harness. And after someone panics, you let them regain their bearings and then you RECHECK the harness.

    The second and more dangerous thing he did was called a "tumble over". He literally flipped his body over hers to force her out of the craft using his weight to tumble them both out, essentially pulling the harness back straps over her head and pulling her out of the harness before she ever left the plane. For that reason, if an investigator saw this video, the company would lose all licenses and he would quite possibly be charged with attempted manslaughter (since the act took place in the air, Federal mandates allow for this charge regardless of whether or not the statutes for a particular state have that law on their books).

    • SparkyT

      I agree with what you said. But, there's no such thing as "attempted manslaughter." There are only two types of manslaughter (voluntary and involuntary). Either way, a person must have died in order for either to apply. Also, if a flight or "air based activity" begins and ends in the same state, that states rule of law applies to the activity. Federal law only takes over when an aircraft or person crosses state lines or the safe operation of the aircraft is at stake (then FAA rules apply). Since there is no law regarding the safe operation of a tandem skydive, and she didn't die, there is no criminal statute for negligence that can be applied. She can sue the company and the individual TM and will likely win, but this is clearly a civil matter, not a criminal one.

      • Phil

        I am a tandem master with around 4000 tandems. That harness was not properly adjusted the hip, or "lateral" straps are completely loose and that is what caused the separation of the student and the instructor at the hips. flipping out the door will not cause a problem unless a problem already exists as in this case, the harness was too loose and the lateral attachments were not tightened.

    • Ironwoman

      I'm not so sure you can pull a properly adjusted harness "over her head" just by tumbling. I obviously can't see the time when they checked her harness but harness adjustments have survived tumbles, sidespins, hard openings, etc. Years ago, there were even AAD openings after prolonged sidespins. All kinds of people would be falling out of their harness if it only took bad positioning.

    • Bud

      Can anyone find an article on this? I'd love to find out what happened and what the results of the investigation were.

  • alphamedak

    The manufacturer of the tandem rig went to pull this Tandem Master's rating and promptly found out that this guy DID NOT have a tandem rating in the first place. The dropzone where this incident occurred is not a United States Parachute Association member dropzone (meaning they don't have to follow all of the recommended safety procedures established by USPA). This dropzone has also been fined in the past for poor maintainance on their aircraft. Also, they have had two of their aircraft stall, with jumpers on board, in the last two weeks.

    Places like these give our sport a very bad name. I hope this doesn't deter people from trying it out. A piece of advice to those looking to skydive, make sure the dropzone that you go to is a USPA member dropzone. Go to http://www.uspa.org to find a list of member dropzones in your area.

    By the way, the dropzone in question is called Lodi in California. I would avoid that place like the plague.

    • djd

      Thank you taking the time to post. Videos like this make our sport look bad and I am glad someone pointed out that it was Lodi. I agree with those that feel the Tandem Master was at fault cause I completely agree.

      • djd

        I agree so many times I said it twice. Oops

    • CaptCheez

      Isn't that the place they shot the tandem porn jump or some such nonsense?

      • alphamedak

        I know it was in California, but I am not sure if it was Lodi. I do know that the TM in that case was fired, along with the woman, who worked in their manifest. Also, last I heard, the pilot in that case was in danger of losing his license. Not sure if he did or not.

        • Phil

          It was Lodi, and that place ought to be shut down entirely! If it's true the TM did not have a rating, then the owner/operator of the DZ should be shut down and prevented from ever participating in skydiving again!

          • alphamedak

            I agree, except that Lodi is not a USPA member dropzone, which means they don't have to follow any recommended USPA safety guidelines. There's no law preventing them from using a non-rated TM. It's just not a best practice. Member dropzones use properly rated instructors because USPA wouldn't let them be member dropzones if they didn't. If a dropzone chooses to not be a member dropzone, then they can pretty much do whatever they want within the confines of the law (FAA).

            Lodi stays operating because they charge people half what other dropzones charge to take them on a tandem. They skimp on safety and pass the savings onto the customer.

            • Vision_Quest2

              I suspect social buying (Groupon, LivingSocial, etc.) may have been widely used in Lodi dropzones to lure in skydive patrons …

    • NorCal

      How do you know that the tandem master was not rated? Not rated as in no certification? Or expired certification?

      • alphamedak

        Skydiving is a small community. I know people at every major dropzone in the U.S. What most people in this forum don't know is that this incident took place about a year ago. I hold an instructional skydiving rating and this incident summary was presented at a training event in Colorado about six months ago.

        In the U.S. skydivers can hold 4 different types of sport jump licenses. "A" license is the first. It requires 25 jumps and passing a written exam. "B" license requires 50 jumps, water landing training, and a written exam. "C" license requires 200 jumps, some accuracy landings, and a written test. "D" license requires 500 jumps along with 2 night jumps and a written exam. There are also various instructor ratings that get attached to your license once you have passed the instructor training for the type you want.

        The "Tandem Master" in this incident had a "D" license, but did not hold a "Tandem Rating" from the manufacturer.

    • https://www.facebook.com/jnca209 Jeremy Whitley

      It's NOT Lodi. It's right near Lodi, but it is called The Parachute Center in Acampo, CA. Read the advertisement in the beginning of the video!

      • alphamedak

        While the address states Alcampo, The Parachute Center operates out of the Lodi airport. Those of us in the skydiving community refer to The Parachute Center as "Lodi" because that's where it is.

  • Aye

    Check the Chive shout out… http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2149774/S

  • https://www.facebook.com/nbogner1 Nate Bogner

    They're doing it wrong.

  • Ironwoman

    As a former tandem instructor, I will tell you this really DID give me nightmares after watching it yesterday.

    Having said that, I can't share the specific criticism that people think they are seeing on the video. While I would never force a passenger that decided not to jump, it's not clear to me that a refusal occurred here. It is extremely common for a first-time jumper to grab at the door, the instructor, etc. If I heard a passenger say "no", I would pull them back and clarify. But you have wind noise, the passenger is in front of the instructor and "no" sounds like "go". To be specific, having a 1st-timer grapple like that before they exit is just plain common and does not equal a refusal.

    I'm also not seeing though any point where she grabbed and loosened any straps. So I think it's likely that the instructor did not have the side straps (those between the passenger and the instructor) tight enough. Their hips should be pulled tightly against each other before exit.

    I don't have any problem with the rollout; it's a legitimate exit method if the student has their hands crossed on their chest. As far as I can tell, her poor positioning then contributed to a sidespin which would have aggravated the situation if I am correct about the straps being loose. I also doubt this student's harness was properly adjusted to her body. There are numerous adjustments on the student harness so they should never come that loose if properly checked. Some drop zones have a person trained to put harnesses on passengers, but it is still the instructors responsibility to check it.

    I'll give the guy credit for what was probably an amazing feat of strength in ultimately preventing her death. But accidents like this usually have a series of causes and in this case I suspect the poor student performance was an aggravating factor along with possible poor equipment preparation by the instructor (having said that, it's hard to be 100% sure from what is shown on the video).

    • ironwoman

      I should add that I DID train my passengers to give me a ready signal, get a nod, or something. So I wouldn't have done the exit EXACTLY this way. I might have also reminded them to cross their arms to get them to let go of the door. I'm not saying he did "OK" on the exit; I'm just not clear that she refused.

    • Sterling Archer

      [youtube wDIAlF6QCkg&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDIAlF6QCkg&feature=related youtube]

      • ironwoman

        How is this video related to the original?

        • Sterling Archer


    • https://www.facebook.com/xrayjeeper83 Andrew Jones II

      When I did a tandem I was told point blank, that at the door with the noise, that go and no sound the same. That if I didnt wanna do it I better speak up before we go to the door

  • RyanPDiehl

    I've only done this ONCE and could tell that the harness was left waay to loose, I mean WTF? Seriously?

  • Statan

    Heyyyyyeah, Woooaaaaooooaoh its The Offspring… OWahhhhhooohhhhhhhoooaaaaahhhhaaooooooaaaaaaah.

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